Anchor Group Podcast: Episode 5
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- Caleb Schmitz, CRO at Anchor Group
- Michael Mueller, eCommerce Account Executive at Anchor Group
- Anchor Group (Company Page)
Podcast Transcript
Caleb (00:00)
Welcome to the Anchor Group Podcast. This is episode number five, and we're going to talk about BigCommerce Headless. What that means is the ability to decouple your back end from your front end.
In this conversation, we have Max from our team, a BigCommerce developer, who will go through some of the technical components. But make sure you stay tuned throughout the whole episode, as we’ll also address less technical aspects specifically for marketers and other business decision-makers. Let's get into the episode.
Michael (00:28)
Max, have you ever been on a podcast before?
Max (00:30)
Cool. Back in college, we had a little philosophy podcast that we tried. I think we released two episodes and then I gave up on it. So, I guess if you count that, I think I racked up seven total views, and six of them were probably me just figuring out if my microphone sounded okay.
Michael (00:50)
Hey, you gotta start somewhere. Well, thank you for hopping on this podcast today. Like I said, we're going to talk about Headless Commerce, specifically how it relates to BigCommerce.
We'll get into some of the more nitty-gritty details, but Headless Commerce has a lot to do with the front end of an e-commerce website. So, that's where I want to start today's conversation.
Are there any websites—or let me phrase that differently—what is one of your favorite websites from a theme perspective, from the way it looks when you log on? Any thoughts or personal favorites?
Max (01:30)
Yeah, the one that comes to mind is Black Diamond Equipment. If you're into skiing, climbing, or mountaineering, they sell a lot of high-quality gear.
I think they do some cool things with images and transitions. I also ski and buy their gear, so that probably plays a part in my preference, but I just think they have a really well-designed website.
Michael (02:01)
Hey, I have to call out Black Diamond headlamps. Those things are legit. I use them for camping. If you're into headlamps, check them out—they make a great product.
Caleb, how about you?
Caleb (02:13)
I always like complex websites that do interesting things, especially in the B2B space. Anything with a product configurator or advanced functionality.
I appreciate when companies put effort into their product detail pages and overall functionality. Specifically in B2B, I find those sites the most impressive.
Michael (02:40)
Yeah, right on. For me, there’s a website called Rock Auto—rockauto.com.
Every six months, I get on a kick where I think I want to work on my car in my garage. About four hours into the project, I realize it was a terrible decision. But I buy my parts from Rock Auto.
The interesting thing about their website is that it looks like a giant Excel spreadsheet. You click the plus sign to expand sections, and it just lists out all the parts. It's a very unique site. You don’t see many like it today, but I find it fascinating how functional and different it is.
Caleb (03:22)
Yeah, and design isn’t just about looking pretty. A good website should be functional for its industry.
The best design isn’t necessarily the sleekest—it’s the one that’s easiest to use for the type of shopping experience required. Not every site can be designed like an apparel store and still be practical.
Michael (03:47)
Yeah, exactly. Cool. Thanks for sharing.
Let’s get into the conversation about Headless Commerce.
To preface this, some might think of Headless Commerce as just a buzzword, but it's been around for a while. Essentially, it’s just a different way to structure a website—it’s a different architecture.
There are pros and cons to going headless. Recently, there's been more discussion around it, especially with BigCommerce.
Max, anything to add to that definition?
Max (04:38)
Yeah, when I think of Headless Commerce, I think of "cool."
There’s a lot of reasoning behind that, but first, you have to understand the evolution of e-commerce.
Before Shopify and BigCommerce, businesses had to build their own e-commerce websites from scratch. That meant developing their own product management systems, frontend, API, and database connections—essentially creating their own e-commerce platform.
Then, Shopify came along and revolutionized the industry. They made e-commerce platforms a service, allowing people to launch stores in minutes. But that also meant merchants were confined to Shopify’s structure.
Headless Commerce changes that by giving businesses access to APIs so they can customize and extend their store however they need.
With BigCommerce, for example, you have an open API that lets you build your store in the way that best fits your business. You’re not locked into one platform’s rigid structure. You can integrate additional APIs and create a fully customized experience.
So, when I think of Headless Commerce, I think of three things:
Customizability – You can build exactly what you need.
Speed – You can use cutting-edge front-end technologies.
Flexibility – If BigCommerce gets you 90% of the way there, you can build that last 10% yourself to make it perfect.
Caleb (07:18)
Let me ask a couple of follow-up questions because I want to fully understand this.
When you talk about Headless Commerce, I think of a website in two parts:
The backend – This includes the product catalog, pricing, and sales orders. In BigCommerce, this is where merchants manage their store operations.
The frontend – This is what customers interact with—the actual website design, product pages, and checkout experience.
Is Headless Commerce essentially allowing businesses to separate these two components so they aren’t tied together?
Max (07:26)
Yeah, exactly.
Caleb (07:45)
This is before they get into your full order management system of NetSuite or something like that. Then, you've got your front-end piece, which is your page builder. You're dragging and dropping this About Us section and this FAQ section and all of those components. I think the way you described it is it's decoupling the back end of BigCommerce from that drag-and-drop page builder tool. Can you verify or correct that?
Max (07:45)
Yeah, that's exactly it. If you look at Shopify—it's one of the most common platforms and well known for its page builder tool—you get a pretty extensible page builder, but you're confined to the monolithic architecture Shopify provides. When I say "monolith," I mean you have a back end and a front end that are connected, and there's really nothing you can do about that. Your page builder exists within the Shopify back end. You can make some customizations or maybe pull it down and do a few more advanced ones, but at the end of the day, you re-upload it to that Shopify environment, and you're confined to it.
When we go headless, the first thing we typically do is take the front end and put it somewhere else. Often, that's a platform like Vercel, where we can host a Next.js, Svelte, or Vue app. We remove the front end from the back end. That might seem like extra work or an inconvenience, but you gain advantages like having all the source code for your front end, which lets you extend it any way you want. You also get the speed that comes from a modern web framework, which many WYSIWYG page builder tools aren’t designed for. So yes, that's what we're talking about. We're decoupling the front end of the website from the platform—BigCommerce, Shopify, or whatever—and standing it up by itself. Then, we use that platform’s API to handle interactions.
Caleb (10:15)
So when you say you're using the API, whenever you're interacting with the website to register from your headless front-end solution, which you mentioned might be Vercel...
Max (10:21)
Vercel is the hosting platform we’d use, for example, if we were using Next.js for a BigCommerce app.
Caleb (10:30)
OK, Next.js. So when someone registers, you're making an API call back to BigCommerce to handle that registration?
Max (10:41)
Yes. Your front end still talks to your platform, but we’re just using BigCommerce’s API to handle the registration call. It’s the same when you add a product to a cart; we’re making a call back to BigCommerce to handle that interaction.
Caleb (10:59)
Is that basically the same thing the native page builders do? They're just using those same APIs to talk back and forth?
Max (11:05)
Yes, for the most part. From an architectural perspective, it might vary depending on the platform. I haven’t worked at Shopify, so I can’t speak to how they handle that exact request on the back end, but conceptually it's the same.
Caleb (11:19)
Got it. You mentioned Vercel and something starting with S—Svelte—and then Next.js. Can you describe the difference between those so we can understand where they fit?
Max (11:34)
Yes, Svelte is spelled S-V-E-L-T-E. Vercel is the hosting platform that allows you to host these headless front ends. We’re not confined to Vercel or just one framework like Next, Svelte, or Vue—those are the three big players right now. The biggest two are Next.js and Vue, with Svelte as the new kid on the block.
We use Vercel because BigCommerce has positioned it as the hosting platform for headless front ends on their platform, but we can host our front end anywhere. We could build a complete application in a framework like Laravel, which uses PHP on the back end, and host it on our own server if we wanted to. We’d still talk to BigCommerce or whatever e-commerce platform is on the back end.
When I mention Vercel, it’s simply a hosting platform for headless commerce. With Headless, we can use any hosting platform, and BigCommerce doesn’t restrict that. Next.js or Svelte refer to the front-end frameworks where we actually build our website—the HTML markup, CSS, animations, and so on. BigCommerce is agnostic to which front-end framework you use, so you can switch them out without any major issues.
Michael (13:44)
Max, you mentioned flexibility, performance, and speed. I’d add scalability. You described how you can swap things out as needed, and that really speaks to flexibility, speed, and scalability. As businesses change, or their customers and go-to-market strategies change, they might need to replace pieces of the puzzle with something more dependable or relevant as they evolve.
Max (14:30)
Exactly. It also allows you to do interesting things on the content management and marketing side. For example, you can integrate any content management system with your front end. If you use Contentful for your blog, you can integrate it with your e-commerce site.
With a monolithic architecture, it’s more challenging to integrate a third-party CMS. Headless lets you add different pieces to the puzzle. Someone on a smaller e-commerce plan might not need that yet, but as they grow into a mid-market or enterprise company, headless lets you do a lot of things a monolith wouldn’t.
Caleb (15:31)
You just touched on something I was curious about—marketing. I know you're a BigCommerce developer focusing on integration development, so that's your default perspective. But once someone hires Anchor Group for a BigCommerce implementation, I wonder...
Max (16:04)
You can set that up however your marketing team wants it. BigCommerce is rolling out—or has begun to roll out—a newer product called “makes with,” which is a page-building tool that uses React components with Next.js. It allows marketers to come to a developer and say, “Hey, I really want this component for my blogs.” We can then design a custom React component that you can drag and drop wherever you need it on your content pages. Whether that’s a blog or an About Us page, you can reuse this component all over your site. We can also make these components modifiable by adding parameters so you can add content sections—anything you’d expect in a tool like that. It really extends the platform that already exists.
Caleb (17:04)
OK, so you talked about the front end and how you can extend the platform because it’s decoupling the backend from the front-end page builder. Are the same marketing integrations with BigCommerce unaffected?
Max (17:10)
Some of the marketing integrations are affected, and some aren’t—it depends. Typically, we replace the native BigCommerce content management system or blog builder with something else. That might be “makes with,” or it might be a traditional content management system. We often position Strapi, which is pretty commonly used. We’ve also had clients that use more advanced content management systems like Contentful, which BigCommerce sees a lot of on their side. They’re building out pre-built integrations with their headless starter kit for that CMS. Contentful is more of an enterprise-tier system, so it really depends on the business use case.
BigCommerce does allow you to keep the native blog builder if you want to. You could use that entirely untouched and still go headless, or you could replace it with something that gives you more flexibility and power on the marketing side. That’s how I’d describe it.
Caleb (18:37)
OK, the blog is part of the content on the front end, so that makes sense. But what about something like a Klaviyo integration for email marketing? Would that be impacted?
Max (18:41)
No, that wouldn’t be impacted at all. That goes back to the headless architecture and how we can string together a mix of APIs that suit your business. Essentially, Klaviyo acts as its own standalone microservice interacting with BigCommerce for email marketing. Maybe you’re running promotions on a promotions app, and it works in a similar way. You can create an integration between your promotions service and Klaviyo if you want to run a specific email campaign, or you can treat each as its own microservice that communicates with the others. That lets us create complex integrations as needed.
Caleb (19:43)
OK, I think I’m starting to understand. One more question: you mentioned “Catalyst” briefly. What is Catalyst?
Max (19:52)
Catalyst is BigCommerce’s starter kit for headless e-commerce. It’s an out-of-the-box, minimal theme that gives you a Next.js app—the front-end framework we talked about earlier—ready to go. You could clone Catalyst to your own repository, push it up to Vercel (the hosting platform), and have a store ready to sell products. Then you connect it to your BigCommerce store, and it pulls in your products, categories, and product display pages, so you’re ready to sell via a headless storefront. BigCommerce built Catalyst to lower the cost of entry into headless commerce.
Caleb (20:47)
Now, if someone already has a BigCommerce store using the standard page builder, but they want Anchor Group to convert them to a headless setup and open up more options, how does that process work? Do they have to start fresh with a new BigCommerce environment?
Max (21:24)
No, you can reuse everything you already have. That’s one of the great things about BigCommerce and how it’s designed for headless e-commerce. You don’t really have to do anything on the backend. We’d kick off a project to develop a new front end in the background while your existing Stencil storefront remains live. Once the headless version is ready, we just swap storefronts—removing the old Stencil front end from the internet and replacing it with the new headless build. It’s almost like nothing changed, except now you have a faster, modern site with a headless architecture.
Caleb (22:24)
That’s really interesting, especially with how important SEO and page speed are, particularly on mobile. From the client’s perspective, how much effort is involved in going from a Stencil-based BigCommerce store to a headless one? Obviously the total project cost depends on specifics, but how much of their time is typically required? Since their back end is already set up, does it mostly come down to development, or is there a lot the client has to do?
Max (22:56)
Yeah, it depends on the project's goals. I’d say where the client is most involved is in the store design—what you want the store to look like. We offer graphic design services, so one of our designers will run workshops and talk through what you want on your home page, what your calls to action are, and how you want your category pages to look. We’ll also discuss your existing category structure: whether we keep it the same when we migrate or rework it. Those are the questions we ask when we’re planning a project, and your goals for the migration will determine how much work it is for you.
If you want the site to look relatively similar to what you have now and you don’t have a lot of input on the new design, it won’t change drastically. If your main goal is speed, it can be a minimal effort on your side while we build the site in the background. But if you have a bigger vision for the new site, then you’ll be more actively involved—giving input on design, theme, and page structures. That’s where it’s fun for us because we get to use creativity to bring your vision to life.
Michael (25:19)
I think this leads to the question of when is the right time for a company to consider headless commerce. From your experience, you mentioned it’s probably not the best option for someone just starting out, like a mom-and-pop shop that wants to test the waters with e-commerce. They probably shouldn’t jump right into headless. But if a company already has an established e-commerce presence and wants to take it to the next level—and they have a team eager to manage the website at that next level—they may be a good candidate. Any thoughts?
Max (26:18)
Yeah, it depends on the existing business. If you have a well-established B2B operation but not much e-commerce presence, you’re not necessarily disqualified from going headless—especially if you’re looking at an enterprise-tier e-commerce platform. BigCommerce’s Catalyst starter kit has lowered that cost and complexity of entry. But you’re right that if you’re on a lower pricing tier, you might still be in the page-builder stage, and a traditional monolith might be best for now.
Once you move into that mid-market or enterprise bracket, we start asking questions like, “Are competitors beating you on SEO?” That’s something Headless can address immediately if SEO is vital. Another factor is if you need intense customization, that would be more work in a page builder but easier in a headless environment. That often applies to B2B features or advanced checkout flows. And if you’re a large enterprise doing a lot of your own tech work, headless can help integrate everything behind the scenes more smoothly.
Michael (29:18)
That’s all very well put, Max. We’ve talked a lot about the positives of headless—flexibility, customization, performance, scalability—but we should also address potential pitfalls or things people need to be aware of before making the switch. From your experience, can you highlight a couple of those?
Max (29:54)
Yeah, I would say the biggest thing is first making sure Headless Commerce is actually right for you. That upfront vetting and asking whether your use cases fit with Headless Commerce—how it aligns with your business—that’s crucial. Then, after that, maintenance is the biggest concern I can think of. If your site requires a lot of frequent changes that a page builder can already handle, then headless might add complexity. But if you're limited by the page builder, you might need headless for more flexibility. It's about finding where you fit. That’s where a service like ours can help guide you.
Michael (31:03)
Yeah, going to Headless Commerce—and when an e-commerce website is a main revenue stream—you really have to do your due diligence. Working with a company like us at Anchor Group, which has experience with both Stencil (monolithic platforms) and Headless, we can guide you through that process. That’s what the three of us enjoy doing each day: helping folks make the best decisions for their business. Now, as we start to wrap up, I’m curious—looking ahead six months or a year, do you have any predictions on where Headless Commerce is going with BigCommerce?
Max (31:47)
I think Headless is going to be huge with BigCommerce. If you look at e-commerce as a whole, monolithic architecture is still very common, but Headless is on the rise. We’ve seen adoption in the past couple of years, especially at the enterprise level. BigCommerce is providing a platform that’s ready for Headless Commerce right out of the box, which really lowers the cost of entry and propels broader adoption of Headless.
Michael (33:11)
I agree. As we’ve said, you’re still keeping your BigCommerce back end. Headless has been around for years, but BigCommerce is giving you a great experience in that back end while lowering the barrier of entry on the front end with things like Catalyst, Vercel partnerships, and Makeswift. They’re setting up Headless Commerce nicely, especially for mid-market merchants who want to go that route.
Max (33:56)
Yeah, that’s exactly it.
Michael (33:57)
Thank you all for tuning in to this week’s episode, episode five of the Anchor Group podcast, where we covered a lot of technical details about Headless Commerce. If something didn’t make sense, that’s okay—this is a tricky subject. Feel free to reach out to us. Go to anchorgroup.tech, or hop on our YouTube channel and leave a comment if you’re watching there. We’ll get in touch and help guide you through the process. We’ve done it for others and would be happy to do it for you. Max, thanks for joining us today. Caleb?
Caleb (34:37)
Thanks, Max. I learned a lot today. Appreciate it.
Max (34:41)
No problem. Anytime, guys.
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